Recently, we had the privilege of speaking with Captain Joe Evans of the Wichita Fire Department – whose career with the fire department spans a whopping 27 years – and he was one of the most genuine, down-to-earth, humble, and open-hearted people we’ve ever interviewed. And that’s the short list of positive adjectives we could use to describe him.
Most conversations are forgotten shortly after they’ve taken place, but our call with Joe will linger in our minds and hearts for many years to come. The reason? He has seen and experienced things that would break most people. But when he shared some of the most painful experiences in his life and career, it was evident that he wasn’t a broken man. Hell, he wasn’t even fractured.
He has literally and figuratively walked through the fires of his life, come out the other side, and seemed to transcend the trials of human experience with the calm acceptance of a Buddhist Monk. That’s not to say he was unaffected – or shut down emotionally – he has profound feelings about the events he describes in Part 2 of this interview. He has simply accepted the fact that they can’t be undone.
By the end of a fifty-minute call (only 50 minutes!), it was clear… Joe was the type of leader you’d follow into battle without hesitation – trustworthy, capable, authentic, supportive and kind.
But enough with the adjectives, let’s jump into the interview so that you can see for yourself what a phenomenal human being and leader Joe is…
Kristee with FileOnQ: What inspired you to become a fire investigator? Was it something you’ve always wanted to do, or did something happen that inspired you to do it?
Joe: We have a truck – a Mobile Air Unit – that goes to every structure or building fire. That unit supports the firefighters by refilling their water bottles, providing refreshments, Gatorade, and other supplies. Its main function is to replenish their water bottles.
Back in 2006, the Fire Department started a program called the Mobile Air Investigator Program
They found individuals who were interested in investigating. It was a stepping stone toward something more significant. You got some on-the-job training. But the bad thing about it was that it was a dual role.
You were filling bottles while assisting with the investigation. Sometimes, it could be very stressful to try to get the bottles filled quickly so you could help with the investigation. But, it didn’t stop the investigation or slow it down. It depended on the fire scene and how quickly you got there to help out.
When that program started, they were looking for interested individuals. So I put my name in the hat and was selected. I did the Mobile Air Investigator Program for about two years.
Before that, the State Fire Marshal here in Kansas was putting on an ADR investigation course. You had to have completed that course to get selected for the Mobile Air Program. So, I spent two weeks up in Salina, Kansas, at the Highway Patrol Academy, and got my certification.
Then I came back and was selected for the Mobile Air Program. I did that for about two years, but realized that I missed the firefighting aspect of it. One of the reasons I got into the fire service was because I like to help people. But, I like all aspects of it… the firefighting, even making medical calls. Some guys don’t like making medical calls, but I enjoyed them. They helped me keep up on my EMT skills.
Everybody on the Fire Department Commission has to be an EMT. We have some paramedics on the job, but everybody has to be at least EMT level.
As far as the types of calls we go on… you name it, we run it. Anywhere from “band-aid calls” to shooting and stabbings. You name it, and we go to it.
Kristee: In addition to your EMT skills, do you and your team have any other unique training skills?
Joe: All investigators in the fire investigations unit are commissioned LEOs. We either attended the Wichita Police Department’s recruit class or the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Center for the LEO training, which was anywhere from 250-300 hours’ worth of training. We all had to attend 2 weeks of firearms training and become qualified to carry our duty weapons. We also must qualify with our weapons twice per year. We work our cases from start to finish, including presenting arson cases to the District Attorney’s Office for formal charging. It’s a lot like being a fire investigator and a detective all in one.
Kristee: That’s impressive. Let’s see… You’re usually the first on scene, aren’t you? Fire departments usually beat the ambulance and the police there.
Joe: Yes. As far as the ambulance service goes here – run by Sedgwick County, which is the county that Wichita is in – only has eight to nine ambulances on duty, running calls during the day. I think they increase by a couple at night if they have the staff. But only running eight or nine ambulances for a city of 400,000 people typically means the fire department will get there first.
Going back to 2008, I went back out – as we call it – on the floor in operations for about two years. Then a couple of openings became available in the investigation unit itself. At the time, there were only two individuals who had their certification – me and another guy. We put in for those positions and got them because we were the only two qualified.
I’ve been in investigations ever since.
Kristee: What do you think are the most important qualities for someone aspiring to be in a leadership position for fire investigations?
Joe: Right now I’m the acting captain over the unit – in charge of six investigators. Years ago when I worked at my other job before the fire department, I was in a supervisor position. I do not like to micromanage. I hate micromanaging. The guys that I work with all have the same certifications as me. We’re all at least fire investigators. Some have different certifications than others. But they’re all good guys and they know how to do their job.
So, I don’t need to babysit them. I think that’s one of the biggest reasons our unit works so well and is so cohesive. I just let them do their thing. Obviously, they come to me with questions because I’ve been in the unit the longest, so we have a trusted brotherhood.
Another valuable leadership quality is the ability to listen. As a supervisor, I’ve got to be able to listen to the guys. A lot of times, I don’t make decisions about things without speaking to them first because it also affects them. I like to get their ideas, and then we all try to reach a consensus. And if I need to enact a policy – or whatever the case may be – I do it based on what will be best for everybody.
The guys call me all the time, even when I’m off duty, asking me questions, and I’m not one of those people who need to log a half an hour on a time sheet to help them out. They can call anytime, day or night. So if I get a call at four o’clock in the morning, that’s fine with me.
Kristee: And I know for a fact that means something to people. They may reach out to you for emergencies, but just knowing there’s an open line of communication can settle someone in a situation.
Joe: Absolutely. We’ll discuss potential changes and work closely together. I don’t keep a lot from the guys, even when I’m told that we should keep something under wraps from my upper echelon. But if it affects all of us, I will tell them.
I mean, we all do the same job for the most part – I do a little bit more because I’m acting captain right now. I’m supervising the unit, but still we do the same job. I’m not gonna keep anything from the guys unless I absolutely have to.
Kristee: You do the same job, but you have a lot of different personalities doing the same job. How do you manage that?
Joe: I don’t have to. They’re all great people. We all have that fireman mentality. If you’ve ever been around firemen, you know that their sense of humor is a little… different.
Kristee Ulerick: Who’s the better cook at your department? I have a brother that’s a captain at a fire department in Decatur, Illinois. He’s an avid hunter, so they like him to cook. He brings in soups and stews and deer and all that fun stuff.
Joe: The way our schedule works, and as busy as we are, we eat out. Sometimes the station guys will make dinners and they’ll say, “Hey, you guys want to come eat this? And we will, but typically we’re either eating out or bringing our own food and heating it up in the microwave.
Kristee: As a captain, can you describe your responsibility for the evidence maintained for your agency?
Joe: I’ll be honest with you, before we started with EvidenceOnQ, our evidence management was horrible. The way we kept evidence… I don’t even know how to describe it. We basically brought the evidence in and put it on a shelf. We had a little form to fill out, and we kept it in a three-ring binder. Pen and paper, that’s all it was.
So, when it came time to purge evidence at the beginning of the following year, it was miserable. Evidence was in different places, and you’d have to look through six cabinets to find one thing. It was just a mess to purge evidence.
Kristee: How did you first hear about EvidenceOnQ?
Joe: I contacted the Wichita Police Department and asked, “Hey, what do you guys use?” They switched to a new reporting program called Niche, but they recommended EvidenceOnQ.
I started looking into it, and Vanessa gave me a demo. After watching it, I was like, Man… this is going to work great for us.
It’s made a huge difference. I really don’t have to keep a close eye on the evidence when it comes in. Everybody is trained on it now. We log in our own evidence and we have a secured room at the fire station. It’s a lot bigger than the one we used to have.
We bought some new shelving, labeled our shelving, and made other upgrades. It’s nice being able to just go up, scan stuff, and find it so much easier. Hey, it’s on shelf four. I guess my responsibility would be making sure that the evidence gets purged when it needs to be and making sure it’s properly packaged.
Every now and then I’ll go into the evidence room just to make sure things are properly packed – which there’s never an issue with, because they all know how to properly package evidence.
With fire evidence and fire debris evidence, there are certain ways it has to be packaged before the lab can take it. And they all know what that is.
There are times when the guys call to say, I’m not really sure how to package this. And I’ll say, Well, I package it this way.
Kristee: Can you give readers an example of evidence that is unique to fire as opposed to law enforcement?
Joe: “Lighter fluid is a good example. When we package that, it may still be in the container. We have to take a sample of that liquid and put it into a glass vial. That’s what’s going to be sent off to the lab for analysis.
As investigators, you can smell that it’s lighter fluid. We all know what the smells are. Let’s say the containers are half full, we’ll have to dump the container out before we package it. We will try to get prints off the container. But we have to package it loosely. We can’t seal it because the fumes and the vapors from the lighter fluid will destroy the fingerprints.
We put it in a nylon bag, and then we submit that to the Wichita Police Department’s property and evidence fingerprint technicians, and they’ll try to get fingerprints off of it. Honestly, I haven’t had very much luck with fingerprints. It’s rare that we get a good hit on fingerprints with fire evidence. It has happened, but it isn’t common.
As far as flammable liquids go, we have to store them because the property and evidence department within the Wichita Police Department will not. So we store that here at the fire station. What better place, you know?
As for gas cans, we typically don’t collect gas cans anymore. We may take a sample and a picture of them, but we ended up with so many gas cans at the end of the year… it was ridiculous. We have a lot bigger space now, but we don’t have the space to store a ton of gas cans.
As for fire debris, we may cut up a section of a flooring that was involved in a fire to have it tested for flammable liquids. As far as fire debris evidence, it could be carpet, padding, or fabric from a couch. It could be anything.
If there are guns involved, we’ll call the police department and have them deal with the weapons. They’ll log those into their property and evidence at the Wichita Police Department. We don’t store guns. We’re already dealing with enough on the scene. The last thing I need to do is deal with guns.
We work closely with the Wichita Police Department, they help us out all the time. And we help them out too.”
Part 1 of this interview was dedicated solely to Joe’s professional life. If you enjoyed this portion, we can guarantee that you’ll be riveted by the second half of the interview. Why? In Part 2 things get personal. Joe shares stories from his life that range from heartbreaking to harrowing. You will also learn about the one fire investigation that haunts him to this day.
Trigger warning: It’s a horrific story, and NOT recommended for sensitive readers.
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